Earlier this year, we sat down with Dennis McCullah of Odin's Hammer and Michael McCutcheon of McCutcheon Construction, for a conversation about Green Building. We chose Dennis and Michael because of their passion for the subject. They did such a great job of articulating the challenges, educating customers, and the value that Truitt and White's staff brings to the process, we decided to share this conversation with you. Below is an excerpt from that conversation (to listen to this entertaining conversation from an audio file, click here).

Selling green…while educating the customer

Michael McCutcheon: I think if a customer is interested and approaches me and asks if we do "green building," sure, there's a market demand for that. But, it's a small fraction.

So, the question I'll then ask is: "have you given any thought to green building practices?" I might bring in a small fraction of interested customers. But, then if I ask: "Do you have grandchildren? Do you care about the air?" Then you get a huge interest. The words "green building" don't mean anything, but people understand healthy. You want customers to buy certified wood? That translates into: you don't want to clear-cut forests, right? This is how we bring in the concept and create a demand. There's a small fraction that want green building and you better be ready for it. And if you're not then you're going to lose that market.

Do we want to know about green building? Absolutely. Does everybody get excited about? No.

Dennis McCullah: I think making customers aware that we use green products helps…like we're on their side. Education is a big deal. Children are more susceptible to poisons we have used in the past in our homes. Indoor air quality (IAQ) is a big issue, especially with clients who have children. If a client is going to make a smart choice between a green product and a non-green product, and if it's going to affect the IAQ and what their kids and grandkids are breathing, it just makes sense to choose a green product. Another good example is insulation. A lot of insulations have formaldehyde in the glues that are used as binders. Johns Manville has come up with an insulation that doesn't use formaldehyde as binders. It's a product you can substitute. It doesn't cost any more and it's healthier. If the costs are the same or less it just makes sense to use these products.

McCutcheon: We just built a new deck in Kensington and when we pointed out to the client that we could use a longer lasting material-durability is a green concept-they jumped all over it. They loved it. We weren't selling them a concept, we were selling them durability.

If you look at cars, hybrid technology is a buzzword, though the average person doesn't care. But mention lower, better gas mileage? They're interested. That's what we're learning and why were partnering with Truitt and White to try to create a demand for the practical benefits, not the features. People don't care about the features nor do they care about the sloganeering. Maybe someday they will but we just don't have an identity yet.

Green materials and its challenges

Dennis McCullah: You have to work hard to find the answers. For instance, some carpet manufacturers tell you they haven't used formaldehyde or glues in their carpets for over 20 years. But what they don't tell you is they'll manufacture the carpet and send it to someplace that puts the backing on them, which is full of chemicals. You really have to research…and a lot of times the answers aren't easy, but they're getting easier.

Michael McCutcheon: One of the big challenges builders face is the issue of certified lumber. It's well known in the green building field that certified lumber is the way to go. But as you dig into that deeper, to really play the game correctly, you need to use FSC certified lumber. Then as you dig deeper than that, it turns out that getting a reliable supply of that, at acceptable prices, isn't easy. 

Though we've ordered FSC lumber as a custom product, we decided we needed to get a supply on hand. So we bought plywood and lumber. We found the plywood was decent but we've had some real problems with the lumber. So, at the moment we're not going to use it. Truitt and White is a quality check before we buy stuff. We rely on their expertise.

FSC certified wood isn't so much of an issue of just the actual physical supply of something that's stamped FSC. Part of green has to do whether it's good quality. Is it feasible to build with it and not have crooked walls, have disappointed owners and not have dramatic reductions in productivity because the wood isn't workable? If we don't put the walls in straight, I don't care where the tree came from. I don't see how that's green; it still has to be quality or someone else will have to come in waste a lot of time and energy and tear it out.

Working and partnering with Truitt and White

Michael McCutcheon: Truitt and White provided samples of a product, Ultra Touch™, for instance, which is cotton insulation made from recycled denim. You bring that stuff into a meeting and a lot of people are intrigued by it. If you know anything about sales, you know you're trying to engage the senses. It's a good example of Truitt and White helping us reach a wider market.

Dennis McCullah: I'm currently working on a job that has, as part of the specifications, FSC certified lumber. The clients won't accept anything but that. I'm having a bit of a problem finding a good supply; it's a lot of lumber for this project. I contacted Truitt and White and they gave me a call back within two hours and told me they'd be able to provide me with a lumber package. Where they're getting it and how they're getting it, I don't know, but it's just another good example of where I'll call Truitt and White and they're upfront by saying they'll do their best in getting something for you. You can't ask too much more than that.

Michael McCutcheon: Going back to the structural lumber problem I mentioned earlier, Truitt and White is partnering with us to come up with a solution. And I believe they'll come up with one very soon. But, it isn't as simple as Truitt and White dragging their feet and me going around them. It's going to be a partnership with the local vendor, and then them trying to pull up the industry and trying to divert the FSC wood that's not currently being purchased at all that just gets mixed in with the regular lumber supply. There's got to be a way to connect these people at Truitt and White and those who want to buy it in some kind of reliable supply of wood. Hopefully within the year we'll get it whipped. But we have to whip it with Truitt and White together, we can't do it by ourselves and they can't do it if we buy it.

FSC lumber is just one issue Truitt and White is helping us with-and with me sitting here in my office-I don't even think about. But now that I know more about it, I see why we get such junky twisted wood-it's sitting in a yard because there hasn't been demand created for it yet. It's a complex issue. But, I don't think you could ask for better people to help us than Truitt and White.

If you would like to listen to the entertaining directors cut of this conversation from an audio file, click here. To learn more about the subject of Green Building, visit Bay Area Build It Green (www.build-green.org).

To reach the participants of this interview:
Dennis McCullah - dennis@odinshammer.com
Michael McCutcheon - michael@mcbuild.com

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